Eddy and PCL Constructors discuss reducing water-damage risk on construction sites

Hey guys, welcome to today's webinar. We're going to go over how GC's can reduce water damage risk during construction. very excited to be here with our guest today, John Boktor.

I'll give him an opportunity to give a quick introduction about himself. Hi Adam, it's good to see you. my name is John Boktor.

I'm with PCL construction and I've been in the construction tech space under what we call business technology group in PCL for the last 8 years pushing and the adoption of technology across the company as a whole and we've been using Eddy for a while now across our projects and understanding how water water risk mitigation really really applies to our projects. I've been in industry for a while and the tech space like I said for 8 years but I've been in the field since almost you know 15 15 16 years ago started as field engineer moved into like superintendent roles and project management roles so having that perspective has really helped me understand how to push technology at a field level and yeah it's great to be here thanks for having me yeah no it's great I'm very excited it's not often we get the opportunity to have a guest especially you know partnership Eddy works quite a bit with PCL. So, we're going to do a quick presentation be about 15 or 20 minutes.

We'll go through some of the products, how we've historically applied it on PCL buildings, and then we'll bring it back to John and I to go over some in-depth questions. I think we'll get a lot of great insights. All right, so let's get into it.

Just a introduction on myself for those of you who may not know me. my name is Adam Bartman, COO at Eddy Solutions. Spent the majority of my career in the plumbing sector, owning operating a high-rise plumbing company, but had founded a company called Reed Controls.

And we were getting into monitoring a variety of different systems with sensors and controls. That was then acquired in 2021 by Eddy. And so I've been with Eddy now about four years, but in the leak detection space for over 10.

As far as Eddy and its goals, we provide commercial leak detection solutions. We work for a variety of developers and constructors and we also work with a lot of the other stakeholders in the industry such as insurance companies or submetering providers. We have well over 100,000 devices in the field and each year we continue to save multiple millions of dollars in mitigated water damage.

So just getting into the technology all of our equipment communicates wirelessly using a radio frequency specifically Laura Wen which is a very popular communication protocol in the built environment. So we have a variety of products which we'll get into in the next few slides as far as water sensors, valve controllers, water meters. Those communicate wirelessly to gateways and then the gateways to the outside world.

And this is a two-way traffic of communication. So we can get insights from the job site and also push commands and alerts as needed. Getting into the first and probably most popular product that we provide is the Eddi H2O31 wireless water sensor.

So, this is a wireless device pretty small in form factor that would be placed at high-risisk appliances in mechanical rooms in wall chases. The 3in-1 aspect is that it's picking up both temperature, humidity, and detecting the presence of water. They have an average battery life of seven years and again would just be placed nearby any high-risk areas.

There are other variations to the same product as you see here. Our Eddi probe sensor or the rope sensor really just used in different use cases. And then we do have standalone pressure and temperature sensors.

Although the Eddy H2O continues to be the most popular product from a sensory perspective, when it comes to measuring flow, make decisions on, whether there's regular or irregular usage going on, we have the Eddy IQ, which is an all-in-one meter, valve, and technology all bundled up together. The issue there is that it serves pipe sizes that are 3/4 or 1 in. So anytime we need to obtain the same features but adapt to larger pipe diameter sizing which is often the case in larger buildings, we can use the Eddy Link.

So the Eddy Link is the technology in this case and it would be wired to most third-party water meters that you would find out there such as Camstrup, Neptune, GWF, etc. that would give us the same information as the IQ, but we're now splitting it into two components. Now, the link can also control valves.

So, just like the Eddy IQ has a valve and meter and tech all bundled up together, you can use the link wired to a valve and a meter to obtain the same feature set. Yeah, a lot of times we're just applying the Eddi link with a valve to provide shut off to a particular system. Whether that's triggered by a meter or a sensor, again, all depends on the ultimate system design.

But as far as the types of valves that it can control, so the Eddi link can connect to 0 to 24 low voltage valves, typically those are half to 2 in. If you're operating valves that are greater than 2 and a half inch, we're often using promatian or bimo actuators. there are a variety of other actuators that would make the list.

But limo has tended to be our most popular actuator. BIMO being a global actuator manufacturer and the link really being there to provide that edge connectivity. Now, as I mentioned, all of those products communicate wirelessly.

They do that through the use of a radio frequency, specifically Laura Wan. those would come back to the gateway. So, the gateway be the primary communication device in the building.

To give a sense, we're usually deploying one of these every few floors traveling up vertically. If you're talking about a high-rise building, they get very good penetration in concrete buildings and are able to pick up an unlimited number of endpoints. So, you could have one sensor or 100 sensor or a thousand sensors and they'd be communicating to gateways.

There's two types. So we have our Ethernet gateway where you can just simply inject internet into it or you can have a fully standalone cellular gateway which is the most popular or common gateway that we would deploy particularly for construction a lot of the times you don't have hardline internet available in the building and to give a visual representation of the gateway deployment. So again, if you have a construction project going on and perhaps you have a main valve and some sensors in common areas, you would deploy one cellular gateway that's plugged into temporary power and that's giving you roughly a three or 400 foot bubble radius around it to pick up those end points again like sensors, meters or shut offs.

If you had many of them deployed in a building or the requirement for many to be deployed throughout a building, you would typically find a centralized closet where you can run cabling through. The devices are what we refer to as PoE, so powered over Ethernet. So in summary, you can inject internet on to an Ethernet PoE switch and then those would be cabled to each of your gateways.

So it just dramatically reduces the electrical requirement which is again very helpful in a construction environment where having temporary power can be challenging. So ultimately in this configuration you'd have one every few floors and now you have a full building network if you have sensors or meters or valve deployed throughout the entire building. So as far as how it works and our system works there's really two ways for the Eddy system to understand when there's an issue in the building.

One of them is based on flow. So, water flowing through a meter and the meter determining if this is regular or irregular. And we'll take a closer look at that.

The other way that our system would understand if there's a problem is our wireless water sensor or some type of sensor that's simply detecting the presence of water. Let's look at flow because that's usually the one that requires a little bit more in-depth explanation. So what's very popular in a construction site could be the implementation of a meter, a valve, and an Eddy Link.

The concept here is that we're monitoring flow for the entire property. And we have the ability to turn off water. If you were doing a smaller job site, you could use the Eddy IQ, which is a meter valve and tech altogether, but most larger buildings that we're involved with are going to have larger main water lines coming in.

So imagine during the day there's normal flow of water running through. Maybe you have temporary bathrooms, you have a temporary riser, maybe hose bibs on every floor. The meter is going to understand that this is normal.

And Eddy will understand when setting up its business rules and alerting policies that during the day doesn't need to be as sensitive because there are personnel at site that can attend to any issues. The biggest value that it provides in a very simple solution like this is outside of construction hours. So that could be into the evening and over the weekends when you're not there, our night watch assembly here will not clock out.

The idea it's keeping an eye on the job site while you're not there. So if suddenly there's a burst pipe and water rushing through this meter, it's going to understand that there shouldn't be any water usage at this time. I'm seeing flow.

So, I'm going to generate the alert and I'm going to shut down the water from the main valve. The alert that you can expect would come through by email or text and it'll describe that there's been a water flow incident at XGPM and that the main water valve is turned off. This is also backed by Eddy's 247 call center.

So, outside of the automated push notifications you get from our system, again, via text or email, you're going to have a live full-time Eddy employee who's calling a predefined list of people and describing the issue as well, but also asking if the person who answers the phone needs any support, any shutdown, do you want us to turn the water on, do you want to turn it off, etc. It doesn't only determine irregular flow when there's a pipe burst. So there's different levels and thresholds.

We're not only looking for extreme flow, which is similar to the example we just looked at, but there's also a medium and a continuous flow. Continuous flow could be a little pinhole or a hose that's loose in a bathroom. It's going to see that as well.

So generally speaking, the link in the meter and all the logic is taking volume and time and mapping that out to understand what's regular or not. Again, whether it was a low flow or high flow, you're going to get the same alerts generated and the system will take action as it was set up. And all the setup and again, business rules, automation, alerting, call list, all of that is specific to the site and the people that we're working with.

So once everything's implemented, our onboarding specialist will connect to the site team, get you all set up, and put everything in place to make sure it's working for your team. As far as a sensor, a little bit more binary. So on the back of the sensor, there's two metallic strips.

Once water contacts both of the strips, it's going to complete a circuit internally on the sensor, and that's what triggers all of the next steps and automations and alerts, etc. Again, these are very small form factors, seven-year battery life. They'd be placed near high-risk appliances, fixtures.

You could also place these into elevator pits and other hydro rooms, electrical rooms, areas that the construction team wants to, again, have an extra pair of eyes. Anywhere where you have blind spots, sensors can be implemented and you'll know if there's an issue before it's too late. Again, these also do temperature and humidity.

So, if there's concerns about pipes freezing in any particular area of the building, this is an excellent choice. Again, it works very black and white. It's a one or a zero.

It's leaking or not. So, if let's say this hot water tank started to leak, it would contact the two metal strips and there's your alert. They're not audible alerts, but this would instantly send to our servers and our portal.

So, within literally seconds, you're getting the text or email and typically within a few minutes, if not cleared, you're getting the phone call from the Eddy call center. So to bring the two concepts together, most construction sites as far as the most popular system design, which again our team can work with you to specifically customize a solution for your project. So the most popular assembly would be a link, a meter and a valve on the main domestic.

We do see clients also applying meters to the fire line and also considering any auxiliary temporary water supply. So that's giving you flow indication and shut off capability particularly outside of construction hours. And then those are complemented by our sensors.

So we always recommend having sensors at least in common areas or major areas of concern like along risers, express mains, etc. And not only can the meter trip the shut off valve, but if you were to have a burst pipe at the area of a water sensor, the sensor can also trip the shut off valve to close. So again, either meter or valve, sorry, either meter or sensor can be the trigger for your valve to operate and also generate your alerts.

Now, when a sensor detects the presence of water, unlike the meter, it's going to be a lot more specific. So, it'll tell you a leak's being detected on level four at a kitchen, a dishwasher. Very, very specific notices and it will allow your site staff to go quickly to the area of the issue.

So I did mention construction focused solutions. This is super popular from what we've seen. consider this like a tier one deployment.

Kind of bare minimum would be to have a valve, a meter, and a link on the domestic. usually an IQ, smaller pipe size on your temporary water, maybe you're running a plastic line up a stairwell. And then on the fire side, we're often not valving mostly for regulatory purposes, but we are metering.

And this is useful during construction because your fire panel and systems are typically not connected to monitoring stations until maybe a few weeks post completion of the project. And so in the interimm at least you'll know if any sprinkler heads have gone off through the meter. As I mentioned, the sensors is always a great way to complement that tier one system.

So what we would consider like a tier 2 deployment is everything you saw in tier one with the addition of wireless water sensors. As far as their specific placement, again, high-risisk areas, we can work with your team to determine and do a first pass on where those sensors could and should go, depending on the building that we're looking at. And then a tier three would be a fully bespoke deployment.

We would be looking at all potential risks throughout the entire building. Our primary focus initially is understanding where are all the main shut off valves deployed and designed by the engineer. So on your main water supply, you would have a valve.

On any pressure zones, on risers and common areas, hydraulic systems or other non-pable systems, they're all going to have either valves or meters. And our first design push would be remove any manual valves and implement electronic valves that can be controlled. And then the next piece of the design methodology is you know we have shut off capability now in either flow measurement where can we apply sensors throughout the building.

So maybe we choose to do just common areas maybe we choose to do every unit every floor every mechanical room and again we can work through that with your teams to bring everything full circle we'll just look at a couple use cases. So there was a project out in Florida, Four Seasons Orlando. This was a mix of a tier one deployment.

So you can see on the right here, we applied a meter, a valve, and an Eddy Link, which is within this enclosure here to provide the temporary water protection, particularly again after hours. If nobody's at sight, there should be no flow. If there is, we turn the water off.

On top of that, as an operational solution, there were upwards of 10 sensors deployed within every suite. These were higherend suites, very large. So, near every waterfed appliance like the lavatory sinks, the freestanding bathtubs, toilets, each suite had its own mechanical room.

Sensors were deployed throughout the entire unit and we took that approach to every unit in the building. additionally, each suite had its own cold water feed coming into the unit. And the way the engineers put together this drawing was each suite had a submeter for water.

And so again, our recommendation to the site was, okay, instead of using a traditional meter, it's really just there for water consumption, you can take that out and put a smart meter, the Eddy IQ, in lie of the regular meter. And now what you're doing is you're getting not only consumption data that we can transmit to the submetering companies, you have unit level flow detection and shut off. So this was a really nice comprehensive system.

It's being used both during construction and will be kept there post construction for the operational entity. Another scenario here was a project that's was a bit late in the game. you know superructure was complete building envelope was done all the windows done but they still did want to implement some sort of construction focused technology so the main intent of you know showing this example is it's never too late implementing the Eddi network with some wireless sensors and maybe a main shut off is very easy to do particularly the network and sensors which are noninvasive you don't have to cut pipe.

You know, there's no, big trade requirements. There's no, plumbing involved or anything like that. So, in this office building, we ended up deploying wireless water sensors within the wall chase of the core bathrooms.

So, we had the female, male, universal, and barrierfree washrooms. They had shared walls with a lot of plumbing infrastructure within them. each toilet had a concealed flush valve that was buried into the wall.

And so there was generally a lot of risk within these wall chases, especially given the type of building. And so we propped up a network through the electrical closets, one every few floors vertically, and then we deployed wireless water sensors using existing access doors that were available at the project. At the time, we had no intention of having access to these or keeping them, beyond the construction period.

But what happened as we approached the finish line on this one alongside PCL, the client understood that PCL was implementing this really is a risk mitigation tool. ensure that there's no issues while the buildings in their ownership. and as soon as the project was complete and it was handed off to the client, the client did want to keep the system as is and are continuing now to further develop the original equipment that was implemented.

So really nice transition to see you know through construction into the operational side. So that gives you the Eddy 101 quick overview on products, how they work, how to deploy. and as far as, specific projects, there's a variety of different ways to get started.

Of course, reaching out to one of our account reps will allow you to start to have the conversation so that we can better understand the goals. we do have some great tools online for anybody that's looking for, quick budgetary figures or a rough understanding of costs. we have system builders, but we have a full design team over at Eddy that can sit with either, the general contractor, the developer, both, and really help to fully develop a system.

Again, we can focus something that's really just there for construction or something that works its way all the way through into the operational side. All right, perfect. So, we're back here now with myself and John.

We're going to go over some more in-depth questions here just to get a little bit more detail. So, just kind of positioning things you know as it looks to risk. John, when you look at the industry, there's been multiples of billions of dollars in water damage claims.

Obviously, a big issue for the insurance industry. What generally jumps out the most to you as a GC? It's a big number.

Like, it's a scary big number. And to this day, it's still a big number out there as an industry. And I think when you see the number, you realize that there's a real opportunity to make change and to bring change.

And I think that's where yourself as Eddy Solutions and others in the industry can can facilitate that with partnerships and with other GCs and so on. So that's where it lies that you know remedying these that those numbers eventually as an industry has to come through you know partnerships but at the same time pushing the technology in the right direction. we all need to deploy water mitigation systems.

It's not just a single GC that that will change that that perspective and change those numbers. But it is it's a large number. But again, it creates that opportunity to unite and get together and be aggressive to solving that problem.

And like I said, it's not just a single GC that's going to do it, but it has to be across the board, including developers, including consultants to make sure that these these systems are designed properly in buildings. Yeah, I would agree. I think it's a well-known issue for the insurance industry which ultimately is on the hook so to speak but if all stakeholders get involved in like you said remedying the issue then I really think we'll see right just like tackling fire fire mitigation and you know having having fire suppression systems in a building right so very similar to that idea it's funny I was you know at least for our technology was obviously around water but it's kind of like where the where the smoke detector ctors in the 1960s, some new technology that's slowly being adopted.

So, I think we're almost there, but I think it's a great point. I think you need all the stakeholders involved. So, specifically on your projects, which asset types do you think would see the most value or have the highest risk profile?

When I'm thinking asset types, it's, high-rise verse, hospitality versus healthcare. I would actually look at it a different manner. I would say it's all of them.

And the reason is I know, I know we see more, more risk in certain assets. I'm not I'm not denying that. I'm saying like, high-res residential, you see it a bit more.

It's a bit of a tough industry. It's it moves quick and so on. But I believe based on kind of internal numbers, no, it's not necessarily about the type of asset.

Sometimes it's actually about the severity of the damage, right? So you can have a severe leak in a hospital in healthcare setting or hospitality or even you know a large commercial project that could also cost millions right and can can lead to detriment just like it is in a high residential space. So I would say we see it I think we do see it across the board.

Yes, there's maybe assets like high high-rise residential that has a bit more risk. but I would argue that the severity of the damage comes across the board everywhere. we've seen we've seen millions of dollars of losses in hospitality.

We've seen millions of dollars of losses in healthcare. even small projects that could lead to even higher losses just because of, water water damage is always like that. So, I think that's where I see the experience covering covering covering different assets.

For sure. Got it. So, nothing specific that we need to watch out for.

It makes sense to you're going to have high value equipment in a low-rise. I mean it does not necessarily you might do a retrofit in a in a hospital setting in an MRI or a CT or ICU area that the equipment is so costly that once it gets damaged you're talking you're also spending millions not just in a in a maybe high res high res residential space that yeah sure the suites are expensive maybe and the finishes but and then yeah you get to that number for replacement costs and repairs and whatnot but you can get that number and those numbers flow right across different asset types because of the way we build and in general I mean we're obviously talking about our technology here but ignoring that for a moment what do you think would have frustrated site teams superintendent project managers most about chasing these hidden leaks like not having that insight that visibility yeah the best answer I can give you and the most common is not knowing where the leak is not know where the leak is I think that's the first one Like you hear that all the time. I knew like we knew it was leaking.

I got a call but couldn't couldn't find couldn't find the leak and but it was it's still there and it was leaking and that's why it took to 20 minutes by the time you find a leak. Or the other other coin of that is not h not knowing where where the right place to disconnect or to shut off the leak, right? So not shut off the leak, but let's say shut off a valve.

So it's actually more more interesting from a superintendent perspective. It's not having the right personnel that know where the shut off is, right? Or where the shut off valve connection point is.

And I think that's that one is critical because usually it happens after hours on the weekends and so who usually they're not there, right? The staff themselves might not be there on a Friday afternoon, late Friday afternoon or over the weekend. And if they are there, they're depending on others like a security guard and whatnot maybe to that's roaming around or hospital staff or some sort of maybe you know operation maintenance staff that's walking around and so not knowing where the leak is and not knowing where to actually shut off and the blind spots I could see from their side.

Like you mentioned the weekends, the evenings when no one's there, especially when you're deep in construction, you may not have the security walkarounds, all that kind of stuff. even a small residential space like most most tenants most you know I live in a town home that does you know and you got to know where the shut off is like right like and a lot of people don't people don't understand where that actually main shut off is for the water of the house or the apartment so I think that's a just a kind of a wide makes sense no it's good and so then kind of going into the next section as far as like system overview So, a superintendent, and I've heard this directly from other PCL staff, benefit of having the ability to turn off water remotely, 100 miles away. how do you think now that we're able to give them that ability?

Has their perception changed around technology in general, but also the leak detection systems? Yeah, like when you're when you're deploying Eddy and at a leak detection perspective, for sure it has given a team's sense of security. I think that's the that's the key driver to their change of perspectives, right?

Didn't do that when they're when they one when they didn't have the system, it wasn't necessarily there. So, they're depending on other things and other processes and other people. However, this gave them that sense of security that they never had before.

Yeah, it might have taken them a time to get there. maybe maybe unfortunately maybe the first leak that happened that they trusted the system or trusted a system like Eddy or any any other device. and then the ability to walk away at the end of the day for a superintendent or project manager or a project coordinator or just the staff in general on a project and know that the project is protected from that risk.

I think so that sense of security, sense of reliability that something is protecting the project and that it works. So it's so you're not losing sleep at night and that's what you'll hear all the time, right? I don't have to lose sleep over water leak that could go off at any time.

I think the peace of mind is the big piece there for sure. And we talk as far as the system a lot about trying to make our system easy to install, low maintenance, and just generally a smooth and easy system to implement. from a field point of view you know has this generally been easy any sensor technology even outside of just leak detection or has there been challenges there?

Yeah, look at your own homes, right? When you put on a smart device like a smart thermostat or a smart lock, they over time they become easier to install, right? They've been that and that's a key feature, right?

How to install a technology that is quick and easy and dirty to do, right? And so, for sure sensors, especially the pucks that like from a water leak detection perspective, those those are easy to install because you can move them anywhere, right? you can take them, move them around if need be.

Even if they're even if they're lost or they're not, something happened to them from a damage perspective, they're also easy to grab and then take and put them somewhere else. So, I again I think yes, has that has that part been critical? 100%.

I think plug and play plugandplay solutions are critical for any project and especially from a PCL perspective. when it comes to Eddy and some of the sensor technologies. Yeah.

Yeah. IT sensors need to become that and I think over time they have been and our project teams are adopting that easier because they're able to just take them and run with it and install it themselves. So no, it's good to hear and when speaking on adoption, I mean I think there's an element of the field having to adopt this technology.

We were talking earlier, the insurance industry needs to adopt this technology and the clients need to potentially adopt this technology. And so obviously the big question for me is why did PCL adopt leak detection? The real question would be, how did it align with PCL's digital transformation roadmap?

I'm sure there was a lot of different pieces. Yeah. when when PCL over time in the last like let's say you know 10 10 years or so you know pushed its digital transformation you know perspective and strategy across the company you know we've had we wanted to move to the cloud you know that was a big thing making sure that our you know we have let's say iPad devices on site and mobility was a big deal so mobility and digital transformation on the mobility side was a big deal so having superintendents to be able to be still mobile to see the project the project as a whole but to still be able to be informed through you know their phones or iPads and whatnot and then the other part was looking at more at IoT sensors and IoT to us was a big deal because it's a cost effective almost cheap manner for project staff and project sites to be able to see project risks at their fingertips right whether that's environmental control to through to temperature humidity sensors like partners you know so we partner with live technologies on that for example and just like we partner with Eddy Solutions those kind of technologies allow us from an IT perspective to be able to really understand the risk on the projects and to quickly mitigate those risks right so if it's a high temperature area or a low temperature area what is happening and putting a sensor there helps us really understand what's actually going on very similar to a leak that happened at a certain corner of the building or in a bathroom or you know on the 22nd floor and an air handling unit like that that kind of insight from a simple you know small device makes a big difference and so the IT world was really big on our road map.

Yeah. No, it makes a ton of sense if I think about my own personal home you know and I think everybody can relate to this. We also want data.

We want to know what temperature thermostat's at and all that kind of stuff. So I can only imagine on such a grand scale as these multi-billion dollar projects you guys are doing how important that data is to take it at scale too, right? Like you got to I think we forget the IoT IT side gives us scalability really easily and at a cost-ffective manner, right?

And I'm not spending millions of dollars rather maybe you know tens of thousands of dollars or thousands of dollars at a at at scale quickly and I think that's at our fingertips has made our projects our project staff and our project sites much more capable and understanding technology and then trusting the technology eventually right so right right you know you got to make sure that the data you're getting though is actionable and they they actually know what to do when thinking about data in general from a leak detection perspective. Do you think there's a particular set of data that would have moved the needle on the insurance conversations like we were talking about earlier or just anything in general that would help progress that general conversation with the insurers? So to be fair, from my perspective, we have we have risk managers that really dig into the data a lot even a lot more than I do.

And not to say that I don't don't see the data but I think that you know just to put that in perspective our risk management group has has really dug into understanding the data across across the company across regions across you know asset types across different clients you know so and large and small projects and so on. However, when when I look at it holistically just from my perspective as I continue to indulge myself like continue to help deployments across the company and especially talking to clients as kind of part of my job as well. it's more around the holistic approach to detection.

I don't know if it's a specific data point necessarily. but you know if if there was a water mitigation plan as an example with sensor technology are properly placed in certain high-risisk areas. So I think the insurance side looks as do you have a plan and where does the and you have the technology now with it.

So they're for sure they're they're demanding it they're looking at it they're you know and you're you know that yourself too as well Adam. but it's also properly placing those that technology especially when it comes to Eddy Solutions at those risk high-risisk areas and it's not just like an elevator pit that's not I don't think they're you know they're not digging maybe that detail but the detail level of like we've seen in you know the insurer will come and say okay you know last 10 years most of water leaks have been in you know let's say around mechanical rooms are do you have a plan for that and so I think they're being specific specific around like general areas or maybe like specific around the areas that they've seen claims happen and then so they're kind of asking those questions to PCL and others. we're putting in those water mitigation plans and then looking at that higher risk areas depending on the complexity of the project.

Because I think it's still you know be mindful that every project is still different and it's not all all the same. Can you encompass minimal deployments 100% and minimal minimal deployment of you know we've talked about this right making sure that you have shut off at the water main sensors across a few high-risisk areas maybe you know risers for example but that's you know we have a minimum requirement a minimum deployment but I think on the insurance side they're getting into that world of like okay what about those areas because we've seen major claims in that in that perspective so yeah and that's and you know from our side of the fence. That's where we spend a lot of time in the insurance conversations is like you said, one trying to standardize systems cuz there's so many so much variation from one insurance company to another.

I guess there's also variation from one project to another. But I at least I believe you can have a minimum viable standard of technology. your water mitigation plan is I think another key aspect here and I think they're looking at it from a consistency perspective.

They want to see consistent deployment even if it's minimal even if it's small. Are you deploying? Are you as a GC deploying consistently this minimum requirement across your projects or is just like one or two off you know one or two projects across you know let's say a portfolio of 100 jobs.

That's probably the more important metric to them. like good behavior. That's Yeah.

Yeah. very similar car insurance. Yeah.

Yeah. Very similar car insurance. You get better rates if you if you're a good driver, I guess, right?

So, actually raises a good point. they have that device that you would put into your car so they can track your your driving behavior. that's probably something we can help with as far as anonymized data to show, the general behavior from projects that have a good strong mitigation plan.

And then but keeping track of it, too. I think you got to I think we're starting to do better a better job across the company for sure and we and we do that with you as a partner as well Adam and Eddy world is making sure that we have good metrics when it comes to talking about okay this this building that we're doing together the deployment strategy how many sensors how many you know water shut off valves what does the network look like the cost of it the type of building so those just those initial metrics alone are important to continue evolving the data over time and then you know eventually hopefully you have more consistency. Yeah.

No, that makes sense. So you know thinking about it from the site team's perspective there's obviously a lot of stakeholders always involved from the insurance company. The last one I'd want to hear from you is on the client side.

You're probably having these conversations with the clients now. At at least the way we deploy equipment, a lot of time it's not only for construction. It can be left there for the operational team after.

So, what have those you know client conversations looked like? Has that changed the way that PCL puts out their proposals? Anything like that?

Yeah, for sure. the clients get really keen when when they know that a PCL is deploying Eddy Solutions or other let's say IoT device mitigation systems they ask the questions they ask like why you know why are you doing it and the simple answer to us is hey like we have we know we've had you know multiple risks on our projects in terms of water water leaks and we you know the industry's we already talked about the billion dollars worth of claims across the industry so we know that there's risk there and so we being proactive as a general contractor to make sure that that is, is mitigated. But I think the other factor too is that they're engaged because they themselves have experienced and we've seen this with some of the hospital work that we've done as partners but also outside of that too where you know a client has experienced major losses without even you know outside of the GC world outside of just the construction you know as they take the asset on for the life of the asset whether it's 20 30 40 years when they see major losses in their own level whether It's a bathroom or behind a wall.

It's a it's a you know a slow leak that over time as you know Adam a leaky toilet valve that's you know it's inevitable. It's inevitable right most people I talk to you know I've been in the leak detection world for years and plumbing before that. Almost everybody I speak to can always recall some horror story whether it was their own house or you know projects that they've worked on that obviously get delayed.

Yeah. I've I've I've heard, we were with a client one time and the f the first thing when they heard about lead detection, they they weren't really asking that many questions and we as we were like talking through it. What's our deployment strategy?

And then all of a sudden they're like, "Oh, you know what? I remember this happening at this building, you know." So they they have a portfolio of buildings and on a campus and so they automatically right away asked like, "Oh yeah, like this actually does happen." and it was about staff management, who's who's actually going to see, going to see where the leak is at and do they even know properly on it? And again, it goes back to those points around knowing where the leak is and how to shut it off and potentially automating that.

So, so there's a lot of stakeholders involved in implementing technology. but at what stage do you think it's most important to have Eddy introduced or really any technology that they may not be used to in introduced into the project? As an industry, we always want to make sure that all our subcontractors and design firms and what not come in early as early as possible the project.

I would argue that actually any solutions and especially when it comes to water water leak detection systems and mitigation as such there's a technical part of it and it needs to start early because if it's not truly designed as part of the overall design intent of the of the project or the build I think we miss a lot. So, one of them is network, right? We've had we've had these discussions being you, Adam, about network, proper network system when it comes to Eddy, right?

But what is what do you need? You need a robust making sure there's enough coverage, the gateway systems that you deploy, but where does that go? Well, you need, you need power, you need plugs, you need receptacles for it.

Where's those receptacles going? And most of the time that might not be designed into the project because it's not a typical thing. And so having that early input at both a subcontractor level, let's say a mechanical electrical subcontractor with a design team and the general contractor all in one space.

You know, like others like myself and some of our tech leads that can help others understand or the consultants or the developer, the client and subcontractors understand how that process can be. then they can understand okay yeah we do need Eddy Solutions early on to ensure that there's buyin the design is complete and there's no there's no you know there's no risk down the line where like we have to add and make changes and so on so I think early is always better but in this case because of the technical nature I think it's even much more important yeah no that makes sense and you know we're used to being implemented very late into projects not necessarily PCL sites it's usually like direct to developer deals sites yeah where they don't think about this basically and you know suddenly they are thinking about it and so it has to get implemented but I agree of course earlier the better and again at least from our perspective it's because we have to do a lot of education with the sites and I think where we been able to be successful with yourself and others is putting it as part of the process like an actual workflow that anybody in PCL whether you're you know a junior estimator up to and including a construction manager can can take hold of that process and properly bring in Eddy Solutions the technical portions making sure that the subcontractors are aware that you know that there's a mechanical install portion there's electrical install portion and so being being part of the process is as critical for any GC but I think that's how we were able to ensure that there is actual early engagement because you could say it's early engagement but if it's not part of the process it's going to be hard to you know propagate this across many regions and many different projects. Makes sense.

That makes sense. you know I have to ask has there been a moment that you've been involved with where you know a leak was caught something went horribly wrong or you know there was issues in the building and the technology actually helped. I don't know if you have any of those top of mind there.

There is and we've we've we've both seen it. I've seen it personally. The best example I like to give because you know as I as I as we started as a technology group to push and implement any solutions across the board.

It was mainly around it was the first it was the first deployment I believe one of the first deployments in PCL actually one of the early deployments in PCL a couple years back. It was a bathroom sink leak. it was a residential high high-res residential building in a master bedroom and it was unnoticed for a couple minutes until until the leak detection sensor you know noticed the water or detected the water and then it was alerted to the superintendent.

The funny thing is the superintendent was walking around that area at the time. So they got the alert on the phone and right away you know they mitigated that risk and it was simple. you just had to stop the water from from pushing further out.

It was the leak happened but why that example to me is critical than than a lot of and understood there's a lot of many examples but I think early on we realize that it's not just important to stop the leak completely but I think it's even more important to let it to understand that there is a leak it happened now I'm mitigating that risk quicker in a timely fashion rather than having to wait 20 30 minutes and now instead of which is what happened instead of a $5,000 loss sorry instead of thousand a 50,000 $60,000 loss. This was around not, only cost us a couple grand to repair cuz it was only a bit of hardwood and some drywall repair. So, but if that leak continued for 20, 30 minutes, it would have went into outside of the master bedroom into the living room, living space, potentially even outside in the corridor, again, and it was and the funny thing as usual, it happened during occupancy, finishes were happening.

So I think that example to me as early on made us all realize across both the regional level and across the company how quickly it is it's important for such a small league detection sensor you know how important it is to deploy something like that and how how important it is to understand that it can mitigate such large losses very quickly. No that makes perfect sense. I mean we talk about it all the time with our clients that like you said we're not going to stop leaks from happening.

We're gonna dramatically reduce the outcome of those situations. So instead of Friday at five o'clock, you have a leak that goes until Monday, you're going to know about it immediately. And that's where, when we talked earlier about how you change a superintendent's perspective or project manager perspective, that's how you change it because right away they knew that in their next job, next project that they were they were going to go on after this one was done, they needed to deploy more sensor technology, right?

And especially water leak detect detection sensors because they experienced it and they experienced it at a scale that made sense and they knew they know that they're they're we've got great people that know like okay if this went on further than than the few minutes that it was leaking this is how much clearly I would have had to put in money and time and effort and headaches to repair right so yeah there there's a particular project that really stands out for me it's mainly because you and I had worked very closely at the tail end of it with the client and some of the sell through afterwards. but Lacage Long-Term Health Facility. I know that was a call it a fasttrack build for you guys.

A lot of prefab work going on there. anything specific from that job that that was notable and you know ultimately helped keep pace with that schedule? Yeah, the best example there I think is automatically when we when we were deploying Eddy Solutions, we needed right away leak detection sensors in the risers, the large the water risers or the plumbing risers, sorry.

There were several across the building because they're all prefabbed sections and at the end at the bottom of the risers was a fully fire rated shaft enclosure which we then we would have not been able to which we just you know there's an access door but if there is a leak in the building and it's through the riser side it would have been you know went down to the bottom of that. So we right away knowing and understanding that it was a fast build, fasttrack project and those areas were not just high-risisk but it was hard to get into because they're fire rated enclosures. we needed to make sure that there's sensors deployments right away and you know we use the robust ones through Eddy Solutions making sure that they're they're deployed properly and yeah we did catch we did catch a few leaks in that area because of the nature of the job right and did we mitigate schedule risk 100% we did to a certain extent because yeah you would have had to open those shafts up potentially you know repair drywall like that's that that's a lot of damage a lot cost and you know you can imagine fire rated enclosures how much yeah and especially I know at least for that particular project you know finishes were were very high quality was all in that sort of healthcare space so and you have very very limited time to install right so we had a very short window to install these sensors in the shaft in the in the riser shaft so again and making sure that there's access doors accessibility to replace it just in case in the future but again that short time window because it's just It's a long, we're working so quickly on a project like that.

So sensor deployments when it's wireless, when you have a good network, again, if you're deploying these things properly and planning it properly, you can truly mitigate potential high-risisk areas, high-risisk leak detection, leak leak leak leak potential. So yeah, no, that that one's been one of my favorite stories. they're actually still an active client thanks to the help of PCL allowing us to have that conversation.

And of course the technology was procured specifically for construction but the client picked up on it like you said they got very interested in it and then they took over the system and have since added a lot of different use cases meters sensors different stuff there. So across the entire portfolio, at least from you know what we've measured, there's been well over 40 leak events that were notable you know an estimated 8 plus million in water damage savings. Which metrics do you think resonate the most with the executive team or other managers that may not be at the site level?

For sure at an executive level, I would I would argue that yes, 100% the number matters and not to take away from that that there's reasons why we also right want to want to make sure that leak detection risk is mitigated on our projects because it is costly. But I think the other metric that I think we sometimes not do not do enough justice to talk about is the idea of you know we and it kind of we alluded to is this peace of mind but also it's understanding that we can deploy technology at scale and can make a real difference at a project level. I think that's what our executives want to see.

They they want to be able to sure measure the number which is important. The other part is okay how many projects are deploying it and when they know that there's a larger number of projects are deploying and that means there's adoption and when there's adoption it means that it will eventually will get to that place where the numbers will speak to themselves right and there's going to be more people understanding what the technology looks like how to deploy it and just like our discussion right it's having that more superintendent being involved more project managers being involved more project coordinators more clients you know asking for That's what that ricochet effect continues and I see this with a lot of our project managers like they I don't have to call them anymore. They're calling us.

They're calling their technology leads. They're calling maybe even Eddy directly and asking I need you know water mitigation system for this this project could be small too. It doesn't have to be a large scale.

And so I think that metric what I would call the adoption metric I think is even more critical. especially as we're still in that I would I would call not early but early to late phase of continuous deployment of lead detection sensors and lead detection systems as Eddy. So yeah no adoption is definitely a key item.

I know in working with your teams that you've really helped get that adoption. you have a number of different processes and teams in place to help push that. Speaking to specifically adoption, obviously PCL's got an extremely broad footprint across North America and beyond.

How do you think or rather what would have been the biggest challenges rolling out technology and it doesn't necessarily need to be ID specific but rolling this out across different projects. Yeah, I think the difficulty with with when we talk about Eddy Solutions or specifically when it comes to water leak detection systems because of the technical nature, it's not just hey I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to deploy a thermostat like I do at home. it is and it isn't right like yes I can put a temperature humidity sensor right but I think the nature of the automation the nature of the network deployment the nature that the sensor has to talk to another system a platform a cloud platform has to you know alert me those things were new and difficult for people to understand you know that I'm getting notifications on my on my phone a lot of times and maybe sometimes it's annoying but it's good because it should be annoying in one sense you know so Th those factors I think were challenging to a lot of our our our staff and people across the company and I think the other challenge was how to tell the right story and how to tell the right value when it came to deployments.

It between those two challenges the technical aspect to make sure it's designed and properly properly planned and addressed as at an insult level and then the other is how do you tell the story when it comes to value when you didn't have any and this happens to any technology right you don't have any wins right once you start getting the wins then then you can tell the story but I think it's always difficult for our industry as general this is not just a PCL issue at all I think it's just our industry has a hard time communicating sometimes you know what a leaked leak when you when you see a leak and it and the sensor did work how do you really communicate that properly at a value level our eye level no and I and I was just curious in general I mean when you initially think of the construction industry it's a little bit low tech you would think right and I got to see a lot of amazing thing PCL are doing with a variety of different technology do you think it's been challenging overall or have we kind of gotten to 2025 and now people are more comfortable with technology there there is a certain comfort level than if you asked me 3 years ago or four years ago right like with a solutions but across I think across different technologies there's a real change in industry and we see it all the time that's happening till this moment are we a little slow at it sure yeah there's others you know I would argue our our technology group has done a really good job and continues to work hard at at creating process creating structure around technology deployments innovating around, the ease of use and the ease of deployment and installation, creating internal processes, that that others like like superintendents and project managers and project coordinators and field coordinators and field staff that can go and easily find out about a certain piece of technology and how to deploy it. So, I think we're over the this initial hump now. It's like how do you how do you get to a level of adoption that is I think going back to some of our insurance discussions around like consistency right like how do you consistently do it you know almost with your eyes closed right it's becoming basically second nature and that's probably that's not there yet and you can see that too as yourself right now so in speaking to adoption you know again we do a lot of education with a lot of different GCs if there was one here tomorrow you know what would be the single biggest lesson that you would emphasize for a smooth roll out.

I think you know this is to Eddy Solutions but also other technologies I would say it's early buyin and continuous buying I guess and further understanding that there's still a high learning curve right and that means you can't take your foot off the pedal like it's being present so I'd saying buy in understanding there's a high learning curve and then you know whether it's partners like yourself and I think that's where partnerships really can thrive thrive is being present and us as technology leads let's say and leaders to ensure that we're there both physically you know it could be virtually whatever but it could be but being there right followup continuous engagement why are you having difficulties with this why is there still maybe some issues with buying maybe at an executive level or at a project level I think that's the key to success and I think that's where we've had success as well it's influencing continuing to influence the conversation and understanding that you need to be there, you need to be somehow there. and we have we've, we've challenged each other on this, Adam, to I haven't heard it framed that way. Continuous buy in.

I'm going to keep that. because it's completely true. You need not only buyin from the person who's making the buying decision, might be an executive, but you need it all the way through to superintendents, project managers, MEP specialists, even the plumbers and electricians at site.

Yeah. Even Yeah. I would argue the plumbers and electricians to this moment, not all of them are aware of these kind of systems, right?

Even if even if it's outside of Eddy Solutions like a simple IoT, IoT solution, whether it's air quality sensor that we do some of our partners like Ladium like we continue to ensure that the people that are there doing the work really really understand it and you can't you can't think at one or two meetings is enough like that's so being present and especially I would even argue much more when it comes to you know something like Eddy Solutions at a water mitigation system where there's a technical hardware aspect to it that it has to be part of design. You're not just going to put a valve anywhere, right? Like like it has to it has to be part of a mechanical design or yeah, maybe you can add it in a in a different as part of a riser in a different place, different location, but it needs to be properly addressed at a design level at a at a consultant level.

So that influence has to continue being addressed and those people need to be understanding and so that buyin that continuous buying has to evolve and so you can't just leave it and that's why I think those two aspects are critical with that being the idea being present.. No, that makes sense.

And you know I was joking before the I still do feel like we're the smoke detector in the 60s. looking 5 years ahead, do you think leak detection will be standard for yourselves and for the industry? or do you think it'll be, more hurdles to cross before we really get there?

I don't necessarily think there's going to be hurdles. I think it's just it's going to take some time. let's say on an insurance side, developers and clients, ensuring that it is it is a second nature when it comes to just like their other systems, right?

If they if they have a robust you know electrical and mechanical specification that comes when when they're developing their own development commercial residential whatever it might be you know is that part of the package is it part of it is I you know I open up books I open up sorry the you know a specification and it's there you know you can see the leak detection system there we're starting to see a bit of that I think that's going to take that like some of that is going to take some time so I think yes I'm are you are we going to see an industrywide adoption. Sure. I can see that.

I just maybe not right away until you get to that level where even in the insurance side, it's not enough to just hey, I'm going to give you a discounted on the premiums or deductibles just because you're No, that's it's much more that because there's a collection of data and so on. So adoption takes time, but when it comes to something like this, especially on the Yeti side, just like fire suppression and whatnot, there's so much there's so much involvement in the system when it comes to design and understanding the technicalities of it. So yeah, I think it's going to get there.

We're believers like you know PCL is a believer of it. they're a believer at the site level at a construction level and I think that's driving understanding technical understanding of the systems and eventually that leads to not just more adoption but more understanding once you understand you can speak to it anybody can speak to it at any level and then I can talk to a consultant I can talk to a client I can talk to the subcontractor as a plumber and mechanical subtrade electrical subtrade and so on or even network subtrade right so and that will then have that ricochet effect that part partners in the industry can can learn and adopt. So yeah, no it makes sense.

I mean I've been in the industry say about 10 years and working with major stakeholders like PCL have really from my perspective have accelerated the conversation you know at least throughout Canada and the US. and I do think large innovative companies that have a lot of influence in the industry are really key in describing to the broader audience the importance of it's exciting like it's all it's exciting innovation in the space. It's it's great.

I can't wait to see, even competitors of Eddy, come into this place. Not because it's it pushes all of us. It pushes it pushes technology to evolve, right?

And I'm sure you want to see the sensors getting even smaller maybe or the software is getting, getting getting easier to use from a UI perspective, whatever it might be. I think it's it's really exciting to see. It's nice to have good partnerships, solid partnerships that are more customer driven, client driven, and understand that there's it takes time to get wins and success success stories.

And so I think there's a it's a great place to be in terms of terms of having having the right partners, understanding technology well, and then seeing that innovation continue to kind of evolve. It's it's nice to be awesome. No, it's been amazing insights.

I'm really glad you had an opportunity to stop by today and we had a chance to go through all this. So really appreciate you coming by today. Of course, anytime.